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	<title>Comments on: Do You Think Teaching Medical Students About AOM Is Useful for the Profession?</title>
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		<title>By: bitong</title>
		<link>http://www.medicalacupuncturefacts.com/2009/04/07/teaching-medical-students-aom/comment-page-1/#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>bitong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 04:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medicalacupuncturefacts.com/?p=176#comment-82</guid>
		<description>Ok enough is enough

How can people in our profession support any other profession to practice what we do?

Are we really that stupid people? Come on people what is wrong with everyone?

Other profession wanting to practice AOM are only doing it to increase income and expand scope, it is always about money.

Do you think that anyone in the future is really going to decide to go to AOM college and spend 4-6 years and when done with it all stack up loans approaching 100k, if everyone else can practice AOM with only 100-300 hours of training? If schools do not wake up to this and start fighting tooth and nail then you will no longer have a profession left to practice in. If you think I am over stating this problem then just look at the history of healthcare.

Why would any insurance company reimburse a Lac if every MD/DO/DC were allowed to perform acupuncture and were acutually doing it?

If the AOM profession started to try and include any other profession bread and butter then they would be met with very strong opposition

This is not fair to the AOM professionals who not only care about patients and the medicine that they practice but also rely on it to feed their families.

Stop being so damm nice people, do you really think these other professions really care about you and if you are able to survive? They are just being nice about things so we do not fight them for our survival. They also are being nice because they know what they are doing is wrong and dt our profession being small they are getting away with robbery.

I did not spend the time and money and study and deep personal involvment in AOM to just have it taken away from us.

Mark my words everyone, if we do not stand up and fight for what we have, then we will not be a profession in 10 years from now.

This is like commiting fraud and the poor patient do not even know and do you really think that these people are going to be honest about training to their patients before they provide tx? Of course not.

Please stand up and get involved, how insulting is it for the one who came before us, that these other professions acutually think for one moment that they can fit 3-5000 years into 100-300 hour weekend course?

That my friends is as sad as it gets

Here is one for these so called med acupucnturists:
Please describe for us in detail,the muffled pulse quality in the special lung position. What it means, its etiology and pathology and what should one do when it is present? Prognosis and tx plan as well as TCM herbal formula and acupuncture point prescription. Also when present what biomedical tests would you reccomend and what type of specialist would you refer the patient to? 
Just give it a try after all you are fully trained experts right

Also AOM student are taught that emotions cause disease and directly affect each of the Zangfu. Do med acu really believe this? 

What about tongue and pulse diagnosis? How can one practice AOM without knowing TCM diagnostics? How many patients do these weekend med acu actually treat in their training?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok enough is enough</p>
<p>How can people in our profession support any other profession to practice what we do?</p>
<p>Are we really that stupid people? Come on people what is wrong with everyone?</p>
<p>Other profession wanting to practice AOM are only doing it to increase income and expand scope, it is always about money.</p>
<p>Do you think that anyone in the future is really going to decide to go to AOM college and spend 4-6 years and when done with it all stack up loans approaching 100k, if everyone else can practice AOM with only 100-300 hours of training? If schools do not wake up to this and start fighting tooth and nail then you will no longer have a profession left to practice in. If you think I am over stating this problem then just look at the history of healthcare.</p>
<p>Why would any insurance company reimburse a Lac if every MD/DO/DC were allowed to perform acupuncture and were acutually doing it?</p>
<p>If the AOM profession started to try and include any other profession bread and butter then they would be met with very strong opposition</p>
<p>This is not fair to the AOM professionals who not only care about patients and the medicine that they practice but also rely on it to feed their families.</p>
<p>Stop being so damm nice people, do you really think these other professions really care about you and if you are able to survive? They are just being nice about things so we do not fight them for our survival. They also are being nice because they know what they are doing is wrong and dt our profession being small they are getting away with robbery.</p>
<p>I did not spend the time and money and study and deep personal involvment in AOM to just have it taken away from us.</p>
<p>Mark my words everyone, if we do not stand up and fight for what we have, then we will not be a profession in 10 years from now.</p>
<p>This is like commiting fraud and the poor patient do not even know and do you really think that these people are going to be honest about training to their patients before they provide tx? Of course not.</p>
<p>Please stand up and get involved, how insulting is it for the one who came before us, that these other professions acutually think for one moment that they can fit 3-5000 years into 100-300 hour weekend course?</p>
<p>That my friends is as sad as it gets</p>
<p>Here is one for these so called med acupucnturists:<br />
Please describe for us in detail,the muffled pulse quality in the special lung position. What it means, its etiology and pathology and what should one do when it is present? Prognosis and tx plan as well as TCM herbal formula and acupuncture point prescription. Also when present what biomedical tests would you reccomend and what type of specialist would you refer the patient to?<br />
Just give it a try after all you are fully trained experts right</p>
<p>Also AOM student are taught that emotions cause disease and directly affect each of the Zangfu. Do med acu really believe this? </p>
<p>What about tongue and pulse diagnosis? How can one practice AOM without knowing TCM diagnostics? How many patients do these weekend med acu actually treat in their training?</p>
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		<title>By: Joy Keller, LAc</title>
		<link>http://www.medicalacupuncturefacts.com/2009/04/07/teaching-medical-students-aom/comment-page-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Joy Keller, LAc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 01:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medicalacupuncturefacts.com/?p=176#comment-67</guid>
		<description>Addendum to my previous post:

I left out an important point to the story included above - the point being that the patient&#039;s pain resolved with the use of that single needle. Hence the importance of knowing how to use acupuncture based on the individual patient, not a cookbook protocol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addendum to my previous post:</p>
<p>I left out an important point to the story included above &#8211; the point being that the patient&#8217;s pain resolved with the use of that single needle. Hence the importance of knowing how to use acupuncture based on the individual patient, not a cookbook protocol.</p>
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		<title>By: Joy Keller, LAc</title>
		<link>http://www.medicalacupuncturefacts.com/2009/04/07/teaching-medical-students-aom/comment-page-1/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Joy Keller, LAc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 23:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medicalacupuncturefacts.com/?p=176#comment-65</guid>
		<description>I think the issue here is that acupuncture is being removed from the system of medicine in which is is practiced. Our licensure title is one of &quot;licensed acupuncturist&quot; as denoted by the LAc initials, but we are Practitioners of Chinese medicine and many of us, myself included, are considered by our state to be primary care providers.

The World Health Organization (WHO) recognizes Chinese medicine as a complete system of medicine unto itself with its own terminology and diagnostic methods.

Reducing the treatment modality of acupuncture to &quot;cookbook&quot; protocols that might be taught in a 300-hour survey course is not the same thing as practicing acupuncture from within the very complex paradigm of Chinese medicine.

As any licensed acupuncturist can tell you, not all patients presenting with the same chief complaint will get the same treatment. Pattern differentiation of patients according to Chinese medical theory to determine treatment will always give superior results over a &quot;cookbook&quot; protocol. While it may appear on the surface that a licensed acupuncturist is &quot;just sticking needles in,&quot; I can assure you there is a complex thought process occurring within the mind of a licensed acupuncturist to determine not only where to place the needles, but how to treat the patient as a whole being who is greater than the sum of their chief complaints.

I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve heard the story, probably urban legend, about a new patient coming to see a Chinese medicine practitioner/licensed acupuncturist for a chronic pain problem he&#039;d had for over 10+ years without resolution. The Chinese medicine practitioner completed her exam and proceeded to insert one needle and then left the patient to rest. After the appointment, the patient was handed a standard bill for the office visit and treatment of $100 which the patient thought was exorbitant since only one needle had been used. The Chinese medicine practitioner took the invoice back, crossed out the total and wrote &quot;use of 1 needle, 0.05 cents, knowing where to put that one needle $99.95.&quot; Like all good stories, it makes a good point.

I am not averse to having other medical professionals utilize Chinese medicine and acupuncture, however they should be required to meet standards of education that ensure safety to the public, proficiency in the system of medicine being practiced and efficacy of treatment. Standards that can not possibly be met by a 300-hour survey course.

Joy Keller, LAc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the issue here is that acupuncture is being removed from the system of medicine in which is is practiced. Our licensure title is one of &#8220;licensed acupuncturist&#8221; as denoted by the LAc initials, but we are Practitioners of Chinese medicine and many of us, myself included, are considered by our state to be primary care providers.</p>
<p>The World Health Organization (WHO) recognizes Chinese medicine as a complete system of medicine unto itself with its own terminology and diagnostic methods.</p>
<p>Reducing the treatment modality of acupuncture to &#8220;cookbook&#8221; protocols that might be taught in a 300-hour survey course is not the same thing as practicing acupuncture from within the very complex paradigm of Chinese medicine.</p>
<p>As any licensed acupuncturist can tell you, not all patients presenting with the same chief complaint will get the same treatment. Pattern differentiation of patients according to Chinese medical theory to determine treatment will always give superior results over a &#8220;cookbook&#8221; protocol. While it may appear on the surface that a licensed acupuncturist is &#8220;just sticking needles in,&#8221; I can assure you there is a complex thought process occurring within the mind of a licensed acupuncturist to determine not only where to place the needles, but how to treat the patient as a whole being who is greater than the sum of their chief complaints.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve heard the story, probably urban legend, about a new patient coming to see a Chinese medicine practitioner/licensed acupuncturist for a chronic pain problem he&#8217;d had for over 10+ years without resolution. The Chinese medicine practitioner completed her exam and proceeded to insert one needle and then left the patient to rest. After the appointment, the patient was handed a standard bill for the office visit and treatment of $100 which the patient thought was exorbitant since only one needle had been used. The Chinese medicine practitioner took the invoice back, crossed out the total and wrote &#8220;use of 1 needle, 0.05 cents, knowing where to put that one needle $99.95.&#8221; Like all good stories, it makes a good point.</p>
<p>I am not averse to having other medical professionals utilize Chinese medicine and acupuncture, however they should be required to meet standards of education that ensure safety to the public, proficiency in the system of medicine being practiced and efficacy of treatment. Standards that can not possibly be met by a 300-hour survey course.</p>
<p>Joy Keller, LAc</p>
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		<title>By: Joyce Edwards,L.Ac</title>
		<link>http://www.medicalacupuncturefacts.com/2009/04/07/teaching-medical-students-aom/comment-page-1/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Joyce Edwards,L.Ac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medicalacupuncturefacts.com/?p=176#comment-55</guid>
		<description>The poll in Acupuncture Today shows that acupuncturist still feel that they are beneath medical doctors. I am sure a heart surgeon won&#039;t teach an internist open heart surgery in a 300 hour course so why do acupuncturist think it is okay to teach TCM in a 300 hour course. Acupuncture is NOT just putting needles into people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The poll in Acupuncture Today shows that acupuncturist still feel that they are beneath medical doctors. I am sure a heart surgeon won&#8217;t teach an internist open heart surgery in a 300 hour course so why do acupuncturist think it is okay to teach TCM in a 300 hour course. Acupuncture is NOT just putting needles into people.</p>
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